Quilt Tying FAQ



This is a compilation of QUILTNET postings about tying quilts. All comments are the OPINIONS of the person who posted the message......................

Quilt Tying FAQ

Get embroidery needles with eyes that will comfortably accomodate the floss, but are sharp. The rounded tips of most embroidery needles punch holes in the fabric if you can get it through at all. Also very important, have LOTS of needle threaders. I probably went through 5 or 6 per quilt. The look of the two battings was very different. I wouldn't advocate the high-loft, it made the quilt almost stiff with it's puffiness so that it didn't lay smoothly and relax when you lay it over a sofa. Probably the low-loft polyester stuff will look much nicer. The other extreme is the cotton batting. I think this is about as thin as you can get without going to flannel! (Note: I am a total convert to the stuff.) It has a really nice feel to it and it folds and hangs with a very nice weight (that may have been the problem with the polyester stuff, no weight). Added bonus with the "warm and natural" stuff is that there can be up to 8-10 inches "between quilting lines" which I took to include tying. In the end, I did a knot every three inches or so because that's how I liked it on the pattern and I left about 1/2 inch tails on the knots. With the first one, they were probably 6 inches apart. The pattern on this one was a roman gate with four strong colors of earthy greens and browns and one beige. I used four different colors of floss to blend with each strip. It was aTTof questions about the final stages of a to-be-tied quilt that my husband &I are making. It's a double Irish chain in nautical blue, a coordinating print on ivory, and muslin as the "empty" blocks in between the chains. We're planning to tie it, but would like to make that as unobtrusive as possible.

1.I was thinking about using matching blue DMC on the chains themselves, but then using ivory DMC to tie within the muslin blocks so that error in lining up the ties wouldn't be as obvious. Is this okay, or will it look funny? (The back is a multi-hued blue &gray waves sorta design-no ivory)

Go ahead and use two colors if you want. It will look fine.

2. This is a "group" gift to a woman at work, so several people will be helping (I hope!) with the tying. It's queen-sized, and we have big open spaces to spread it out in to baste the layers together in, but how much/where should it be basted?

I don't bother basting a tied quilt - I just pin it. I put the pins exactly where I want the ties, and remove them as I tie. This might be a problem if you don't get it all done at once, because some of the pins might fall out if you fold it. You could use safety pins, although I tried that once and stuck my self and ended up bleeding on the quilt!

I *do* baste all around the outside edge, about 1/4 inch from the edge. I find this makes it much easier to trim the layers together and to stitch on the binding.

3. Do we *have* to have something to put it in when we're tying (we don't have anything)? What do we need to do otherwise?

8 people going at a quilt all at once. You get in each- other's way once in a while, but it's still ok. As many as can fit around the table can help.

5. I've seen the instructions (ejp, I believe?) on options for tying before, with the most oft recommended being the surgeon's knot, I think. Does anyone still have this posting around (mine's gone) that they could send me?

6. What type of batting should we use? Cotton, poly, blend, ... the couple are currently living in Houston, but he and possibly she will be in Boston for 2 years starting in August. I think I want it fairly flat, not extremely puffy or anything. Is flatter a bad idea? I'm leaning towards the good cotton that can be tied/quilted long distances apart, since it would seem that it will bunch up less in the long run.

I use "traditional needlepunch" batting from one of the big manufacturers. I like it because it is kind of like a thin blanket and is very easy to handle. It seems to hold up fine through washing. Different battings have different recommendations about how close you have to put the ties. I think needlepunch is about 6 inches, but I've probably gone as much as 8 inches.

Thanks for taking the time to wade through all of this. After all this work (and a few more hectic nights ahead of me), I want to finish it right.

> Shelly

From: Jane

Hi Shelly,

While I don't consider myself a *experienced* quilter, I have tied about 4 now, so I guess I sort of qualify to try to answer your questions! :^)

1.I was thinking about using matching blue DMC on the chainsTthis would look nice. You could always try it and see how you feel...if you don't like it, you can untie it and tie it again.

2. This is a "group" gift to a woman at work, so several people will be helping (I hope!) with the tying. It's queen-sized, and > we have big open spaces to spread it out in to baste the layers together in, but how much/where should it be basted?

Gee, I never basted before tying, even on a queen sized quilt. Hmmm, I guess I'm not very helpful on this one.

3. Do we *have* to have something to put it in when we're tying (we don't have anything)? What do we need to do otherwise?

Do you mean a quilt frame? I don't have a frame either...I just lay the quilt layers out on the floor and carefully crawl around on top of it to tie it.

4. How many people is a reasonable number to have tying the quilt at the same time? Several people have told me, "well, I haven't ever sewn/done anything like this before..." and I've told them that's okay, I haven't tied a quilt before either! Am I asking for a headache, or is it really easy to pick up on?

Well, I thought it was really easy. I've heard a quilt instructor say that if you can tie your shoe, you can tie a quilt.

6. What type of batting should we use? Cotton, poly, blend, ...

Again, I'm not an expert, but I've been led to believe that cotton batting should only be used if you plan to quilt the piece. Cotton batting needs to be secured every 2 inches or so. Poly batting is good for tying, since it doesn't need to be secured in spots so closeT it right.

But who defines what "right" is? I figure that if I'm happy with the results, then it's *right*. Now, you can try to finish a quilt in a "classic" or "traditional" style, and if you do that and like it, then that's "right". What I'm trying to say is do what you think you (or the quilt recipient) will like the best. Who cares if it's right or not. After all, it's a hobby and an outlet for creativity... enjoy!

I hope this helped. Jane

Tying advice

Shelly and all else who are interested: I have made several tied quilts, and I have just laid them out on the floor. I pin where I want the ties to go, and then roll it up, so only the edge I'm concerned with is available, otherwise, it will be a cat hair disaster.

When I don't want the ties to interfere with the design, I make the ties on the back. The pinning is the biggest assist when doing this - then the design on the front is secured at the corners, and the ties won't detract from the design. Meanwhile, on the back, the plain backing is livened-up by the evenly spaced ties. Also, the color of the thread used for the ties doesn't really show on the front.

TA DAY MAKING THE TOP (BOW TIE), THEN THREE PEOPLE WORKED ON TYING IT. THEY LAID IT OUT ON A LAMINATED TABLE IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM AND TWO PEOPLE HELD IT TAUT WHILE THE THIRD PERSON PUT SAFETY PINS IN TO BASTE (ABOUT FIVE INCHES APART). WE TIED IT WITH EMBROIDERY FLOSS, WHICH REALLY DOES MINIMIZE THE TUFTS, BUT YOU CAN ALSO DO THE ACTUAL KNOTS ON THE BACK, WHICH MAKES IT EVEN MORE UNOBTRUSIVE. THESE PEOPLE HAD NEVER TIED A QUILT BEFORE, AND IT TOOK ABOUT AN HOUR BUT WAS PRETTY SIMPLE. WHEN YOU ARE TYING A QUILT, THE BATTING HAS TO BE THICKER THAN WHEN YOU ARE QUILTING. A BLEND BATTING, IF YOU CAN FIND IT, MIGHT BE A GOOD COMPROMISE FOR WARMTH AND THICKNESS. (BOSTON CAN BE PRETTY CHILLY, THOUGH!) IT'S A FANTASTIC GIFT AND I HOPE YOU ARE AS PROUD OF IT AS WE WERE PROUD OF OURS.

Tth the batting over that, then put the top over that and pin all over the place. I would use a puffy batting if you like that look, or else just use a mid weight polyester one. OK, so now the whole thing is taped and pinned to the floor. I would use a long piece of floss (about 1/3 of the skein) and go in and out where you want the first tie to be, then DON'T CUT THE FLOSS... go right to the next place you want a tie and go in and out again, repeat until your floss runs out. Then cut the floss inbetween the stitches and tie. (Does this make sense?). I used this way for our aids quilt day and it's speedy. Lots of people can help. A little hard on knees :-) When it's all tied, untape and sew on the binding. BTW, I think the idea of different color ties sounds good. Marla Sue

Go with cotton batting if you can; it's lovely. As far as tieing, I've tied quilts two ways. 1) Set the quilt in the frame as usuall, and tie away or 2)Spread it out on a hard floor (so as not to catch the rug) and quilt/tie it. You start at the edge, so you can get your hand under it if you want/need, and tie carefully so the layers don't stift (not a problem if you've basted/pin-basted it well), working along all the edges and then folding them in as you go. My double irish chain(white w/green chains) is tied with DMC floss in the centers of the white squares. Apparently we didn't tie it right (i.e. No surgeon's knots), because some of the ties have pulled out.T. We used light weight crochet thread to tye with. I bought tapestry needles at a needlepoint store--the eye is big enough and the point is rounded so it goes through the layers easier (don't get the really big ones though). We made a quilt frame using two by twos. Cut fabric strips, double them and staple them to the two by two's. The corners are held in place by light-weight c-clamps. This allows you to square the corners with a square. Cut the backing the exact size of the top, pin the backing to the frame, then spread the batting and pin the top on with the edges even. You could spread every thing out on a floor or big tables and pin like crazy. I always felt a frame helped because it held the fabric taut. Start tying at opposite sides. Remove the c-clamps from *one end at a time* and roll the quilt under as you need to to reach the center. We had the fram hanging from the ceiling but you can rest it on chairs just asTittle knots did not interfer with the design. Reach under the quilt, bring your needle up, back down and on to the next spot, leave thread in between, later you will clip and tye. We tied 4-6" apart. We prefered a puffy bat for tying because it takes care of any problems of your top not being flat. If batting comes through on the first pull, just gently pull back inside. For some reason it only seems to do that on the first time. When we did the quilts, cotton batting still had to be closely quilted, so we always used bonded poly bats. Clip the threads half-way between knots, we just used a square knot. Then go back and clip all thread to about 1-1 1/2 inches. Many of our quilts have been in use a long time and the batting hasn't shifted or bunched even with lots of washing. And, yes, even beginners can learn to do this quickly. On a frame it doesn't take too long, you only have to pin the edges. Good luck. Sharon

Original Question

I have a sentimental quilt top that isn't suited to hand-quilting -- it's made of scraps of clothing I made as an impressionable youngster during the cotton/poly seventies, and some of those squares are darned T of fiber would you use for the actual ties?

Quilting thread, quilting thread doubled, perle cotton #8, 1/16th" ribbon, wool tapestry yarn, DMC floss ...?

* How often would you tie it? In the middle of every square, in the middle of every other square ...?

* Where would you tie it? In the center of the square, at the intersection of 4 squares ...?

* How sturdy would you make the tie stitches? From top to bottom, bottom to top, then tie (a single), or top to bottom, bottom to top, top to bottom, bottom to top (a double), ...?

* How long a tail would you leave on the ties, and does the length of the tail depend on the tie fiber?

Overall Summary

There was an overwhelming preference for DMC floss, tied with surgeons' knots (they're described very well below), and one-inch tails. Interestingly, one person had very *bad* luck with DMC floss -- search on the word "shreddy". The recommended interval for tying was mostly "season to taste", in the 3"-6" range. Based on the richness of this response, I've made up my mind:

DMC perle cotton in red, black, and ecru

tie at the intersection of 4 squares, rather than in the middle, tie at every OTHER intersection (it's a 48x48 grid of 2" squares, and

I'd like to get it done this millennium :)

use the "invisible tie" method described below (search on "DOLL needle")

I'd never heard of the Doll Needle method, but it suits me to a tee. They wanted to. Mind you, it's hard to get throught the corner intersections sometimes (they used mostly knits!!!).

How sturdy would you make the tie stitches?

They usually went top to bottom, bottom to top, double knot (like a granny knot). Sometimes these come undone, but if you just look it over once in a while and tighten what's loose there usually aren't any problems.

How long a tail would you leave on the ties, and does the length of the tail depend on the tie fiber?

I don't know if it depends on the fiber, but they've cut them shorter and longer, just depends on their mood. They did the yarn really short once with an Trter look.

What sort of fiber would you use for the actual ties? Quilting thread, quilting thread doubled, perle cotton #8, 1/16th" ribbon, wool tapestry yarn, DMC floss ...?

My favorite is cotton crochet thread in a thickness that I think looks good with the quilt, also in a color that looks good.

How often would you tie it? In the middle of every square, in the middle of every other square ...?

It depends on the bat and what I plan to use it for as to how often I tie. Sometimes I might tie closer too if I think it would just look better to do so. If I had 9 patches, I'd probably tie in the corners vs the cener of the block as I could more evenly and faster do that as to mark the center of each block and then tie. Unless you just going to put ties randomly all over the quilt (like I did the baby quilt of Lisa's where there really was no logical place to tie) then you'd want it to line up evenly and to avoid marking, the corners are easy.

Where would you tie it?

In the center of the square, at the intersection of 4 squares...?

See above, again dependent on the type of the block or how many pieces and what type shape they were in the block.

How sturdy would you make the tie stitches?

From top to bottom, bottom to top, then tie (a single), or top to bottom, bottom to top, top to bottom, bottom to top (a double),...?

Elizabeth, I do tied quilts for the AIDS Baby QUILT project each year. I've learned a new technique for tying that eliminates the tied ends showing. (The hospitals don't like baby quilts to have ties that can be "worried" loose by babies or small children).

First of all, embroidery floss (5 strands) or perle cotton work very well for this procedure. I also use HIGH LOFT batting because it creates a more dramatic effect when you tie it (but that's simply a personal preference, not a rule!)

To "Tie" without ties, you will need to purchase a DOLL needle (that's a 5" or longer needle that is used to sew eyes on cloth dolls--available in most fabric shops or hobby stores. Thread the doll needle, do a quilter's knot in the end. Starting at the top or bottom of your quilt, put all three layers in a large hoop or quilt frame. You can choose to'tie' your quilt at regular intervals, but no more than 3" between ties.

Take a stitch near where you want to begin and pop the knot into the inside of the quilt. Make a stitch about 1/2" wide down thru the quilt, and bring the needle up where you started. Stitch again over this first stitch, but T knot on the surface by stitching under the X. NOW, put the needle thru the X under JUST THE TOP LAYER of the quilt and guide it through to emerge where you want your next tie to be. Then repeat the process of stitching an X , knotting and tunneling through to the next tie location.

The appearance of this is very neat, with pretty X's as ties and no threads showing. It DOES use up a bit more thread than simple tying would, but it makes a much more secure top than the traditional method. It's also better if you don't personally like the little tie thingies showing. As you can probably figure out from the instructions, the long doll needle is crucial equipment for tunneling under the top layer without losing your needle.

The only quilts I've completed to date have been tied. I took a quilt-in-a-day type course at our community college and made a Trip Around the World top with 4" or 5" squares. We tied every intersection with all six strands of DMC floss. Starting somewhere near the center and working out, we used a "chenille" needle treaded with about 3 feet of floss (no knot) and working from the top took a stitch down from one corner of the intersection and back up into the diagonal corner (about 1/2" from in to out). Pull the floss leaving a tail about 3" and without cutting the floss continue to the next intersection and repeat till you've come to the end of your floss. Now snip the floss in the middle, between intersections. That leaves tails on each side of the stitches long enough to work with to tie the surgeon's knots (double wrapped square knots). Clip the ends to desired length (I held the ends together near the knot and snipped about a finger's width away from the knot).

For that first quilt, not knowing any better, I'd purchased Fatt Batt. With thick batting and a fairly wide tying stitch, it is easy to hide less than perfectly matched intersections.Tr about tying quilts (that's what my Grandmother and her sister did all the time) so I'm not going to go into detail here. BUT I just recieved the "Children of Many Nations" pattern from Quilts and Other Comforts and was reading through it before I came to work. On the bottom it said that if you are planning on tying the quilt to use glazed or bonded polyester...thought that might help in choosing the batting....

Nothing new here, I guess I surgeon knot (double square), as just about everybody else who has ever tied, and I also use all 6 strands of floss. Depending on the look for which you are striving, I have tied 10 inches away, 4 inches away, and 6 inches, which is tedious as you really should measure when the side on which you are working is plain. I have also done seemingly hundreds tying the block intersections - each intersection. Experiment, you may come up with something else you really like. What might be an idea for the plain muslin back is to tie so the color of the ties show on the plain muslin, rather than distract from the colorful tip.

Hi,
In response to your question about tying quilts, when I make quilts for the ABC Quilt project they have to be strong enough to withstand industrial washers and dryers. We use pearl cotton for the ties, go down from the top, then back up about 1/8th inch from where we went down and tie a surgical knot. That is like a double knot, but you twist the end through the knot twice for each knot rather than once. We tie 4 inches (or there-abouts) apart. Depending on the top, the 4 inches is measured straight or on the diagonal. I hope this helps.

Re: How do *I* tie quilts?

Very poorly, I'm afraid. I made a simple quilt for my son to keep in the car to cover his car seat. It was flannel on the back and a cute animal print on the front--No piecing. I put medium loft batting in the middle and tied it with 4ply cotton yarn (coats and clarks, I think). I used a square knot to fasten the ties. The ties have stayed put, but in almost every case, the fabric around the tie has torn. I now have a lump of batting at one end of the quilt and a bunch of hard knots inside the quilt attached (mostly) to the flannel backing or to the top fabric.

I keep wanting to toss out the quilt but my son likes the top fabric. I don't know exactly what went wrong. I wash the quilt often--that's probably the biggest contributor. I probably did not use enough ties on it.

You might want to "tie" your quilt with buttons. I made a lovely quilt for my mother (a quillow actually) that I tied with antique buttons. I would sew aThe ditch", i.e. quilt along the seams, you have a nice 3-dimensional effect in the light without having quilting lines through your work.

2. Tying. I have had good success with DMC floss, used 3 strands at a time I thread a large eyed needle and work down up, then down and up again. Tie with a square knot.

l l(thread) l ______ l ______l_l____l_l____________ (fabric) l_l____l l l______l 3. After tying off, I leave about 1" tail.

I have used this technique on several quilts and some have even gone through the washer and dryer on a gentle cycle of couple of times and still are together.

Elizabeth, I'm just a beginning quilter but we have just tied some quilts at our quilt club and I helped my grandmother tie one for my cousin's son. I think they came out very attractive. We used DMC floss (all 6 strands). I personally like it tied at the intersection of the squares. We tied what was called a "surgeon's square knot" (left over right twice, pull tight, right over left twice, pull tight). I also saw this technique used on the "Quilt in a Day" TV series. It's supposedly very tidy to leave about 1/2 inch. I personally think the 1 inch tail looked very nice.

One other thought, the quilt I helped my grandmother with was a colorful quilt for a toddler so we used different color floss to tie it in the following pattern:

1 2 3 4 5 6 2 3 4 5 6 1 3 4 5 6 1 2 4 5 6 1 2 3

I'd use thicker batting, just because it'd look more comforter-like and look be a bit less naked-looking. About every 4" is enough no matter what I think, and I'd tie at the intersection of the squares, not in the middle of them. The one time I tied, I used DMC floss (I don't think just thread would be enough), and jsut came up from the bottom and did a triple granny knot on top (left over right, r.overl., l.over r.), leaving about 1/4" tails. It's gone through the machine just fine and held up generally very well, I'm impressed in retrospect. I got these directions from the Eleonor Burns book I did the quilt from. It was a log cabin, and one of the fabrics is definitely wrong, but it was my first...

I tied a quilt that was made up of triangles connected in strips (a flying geese pattern). I used DMC floss (2 strands). I tied at the point of each triange (about 2 or 2 1/2 inches apart), where the triangle came against the bottom side of the next triangle.

I put the needle through the top of the quilt and batting and back up through the backing, then tied a double square knot. I left a 1 inch tail.

For a quilt with 2" squares, I might just tie in theTd it has been very effective.

Since you have 2" squares, I would tie the center of every other square and see how I liked it. You can always add more ties later if you think you need to fill it in.

My first quilt teacher taught me to tie using a surgeon's knot. It is like a square knot except you wrap twice for each part of the knot... so if you start out with a left end and a right end, then you wrap the right end around the left end twice, and you wrap the left end around the right end twice. Understand?

I usually leave about a 1 inch tail... maybe shorter or longer depending on what I think looks best at the time.

Also, is this a quilt you plan on using? If so, you may want to reconsider what material you use for the back. I go by the philosophy that the back should be like a delicious surprise... you should get enjoyment from looking at the back as well as the front. Since most quilts you see the back just as much if not more than the front!

What sort of fiber would you use for the actual ties?

Quilting thread, quilting thread doubled, perle cotton #8, 1/16th" ribbon, wool tapestry yarn, DMC floss ...?

With a low-loft batting, you're not going to need a heavy-duty tie, so I'd probably use either perle cotton or DMC floss in a color that suits your fancy. You could either match the backing, or pick one color in the quilt top that you like a lot and use that. Another option would be to make the ties randomly different colors.

How often would you tie it?

Where would you tie it?

I'd probably tie it in the center of each square, but the corners of the squares would be possible as well.

How sturdy would you make the tie stitches?

How much abuse do you expect the quilt to take? The more theTiness of the ties and strength of the tie fiber accordingly.

I made a quilt like this for my oldest grandson some years ago but it was crazier yet. It had actual pieces of clothing--including pieces of jeans, shirts with pockets and socks. It was neat when done and he just loved it. Still does in fact.

What sort of fiber would you use for the actual ties?

I used yarn to tie the one I made. Quilt was so thick I had to pull needle through with a small pair of pliars.

How often would you tie it?

Where would you tie it?

My ties were of necessity, as random as the pieces it was make from.

You might start by tying where the corners of the blocks meet if the blocks are not too large. Then just take a look at it and if it does not look as if it will be sturdy enough you can go back in put in an extra tie between the existing ones.

How sturdy would you make the tie stitches?

From top to bottom, bottom to top, then tie (a single), or top to bottom, bottom to top, top to bottom, bottom to top (a double)

I used the single method and it seems to have held up okay so I thinkthat would be sufficient for your purposes.

How long a tail would you leave on the ties, and does the length of the tail depend on the tie fiber?

I left my ties about an inch long.

From Shelley Thu Jul 8 16:16:21 1993

This isn't very pretty, but I don't have time to fix it up nice. On top of everything, we had a total power failure earlier this afternoon, and our mgr has called a meeting for 4:30 today, which we expect to be re-org news-oh boy. Enjoy the posts! Shelly

From Abigail Thu Apr 22 1993 10:35:12

Use needles with eyes that will comfortably accomodate the floss, but are sharp. The rounded tips of most embroidery needles punch holes in the fabric if you can get it through at all. Also very important, have LOTS of needle threaders. I probably went through 5 or 6 per quilt. The look of the two battings was very different. I wouldn't advocate the high-loft, it made the quilt almost stiff with it's puffiness so that it didn't lay smoothly and relax when you lay it over a sofa. Probably the low-loft polyester stuff will look much nicer. The other extreme is the cotton batting. I think this is about as thin as you can get without going to flannel! (Note: I am a total convert to the stuff.) It has a really nice feel to it and it folds and hangs with a very nice weight (that may have been the problem with the polyester stuff, no weight). Added bonus with the "warm and natural" stuff is that there can be up to 8-10 inches "between quilting lines" which I took to include tying. In the end, I did a knot every three inches or so because that's how I liked it on the pattern and I left about 1/2 inch tails on the knots. With the first one, they were probably 6 inches apart. The pattern on this one was a roman gate with four strong colors of earthy greens and browns and one beige. I used four different colors of floss to blend with each strip. It was a very subtle effect and I like to think that going to the trouble of matching theTthe extra flair of attention to detail. Especially since the quilt was such a simple pattern. This too was a gift and I wonder if the recipients have even noticed yet. I kind of like having little subtle things that you might not notice at first, but then become noticable over time. Also, if you're wondering about how the different flosses look in the back, I had a dark green print on the back that at least two of the flosses contrasted with and I was a concerned that it might look a little stupid. However, the visible thread on the back was pretty small, largest I found was probably less than 1/4 inch. Then when you tie it in a nice knot, the fabric puckers slightly around the stitch on the back and becomes even less noticable. As for straight lines, I had some variance to the lines I created because I placed the knots by measuring each block, not by griding out the whole thing. This was certainly not noticable on the front probably because of the colors blended so well. As for the back, if you had laid down a ruler there might have been some variance, but again it wasn't noticable. I think the slight pucker from the tie helped with that. Probably if you are doing something with a lot of people with varying standards of exactitude you should mark it ahead of time with masking tape ( I love the 1/4 inch stuff) or tailor's chalk. As for the actual knot, I used double granny knots (I think that's what they're called), not knowing any better. I'm sure there must be something better, I just don't know what it is...
Good luck and it sounds like such a nice project!
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